BENNETT: Once again, I'm joined by four exceptional thinkers from very different fields. Bill Galston is with the Brookings Institution, Tara Wall with "The Washington Times", Cornel West, professor at Princeton University, and Andrew McCarthy with "The National Review". [West is the only liberal of the bunch.]

This week, a federal judge ordered the release of 17 Chinese Muslims held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Why do I bring that up? "The New York Times" headline said, "In Blow to President, Judge Orders 17 Detainees at Guantanamo Freed."

On Wednesday, a federal appeals court halted that plan for at least a week. Were we conveying more rights to alleged terrorists while government is growing? And while it's growing, does it lose focus? This is one of the things we conservatives worry about that we say we like limited government, the government that does a few things and a few things well. As we're seeing the expansion of this government, we're wondering about whether government's doing its first job.

MCCARTHY: And we're also seeing that when you allow your national security issues to be delegated to courts, which is a vast departure from our founding idea, which is that national security decisions are the most decisions made by a political community, they're made to be made by the political branches, not by the courts, this is what you see when you have your most unaccountable officials making these very important decisions.

And it actually seamlessly, I think, fits into a lot of our other discussion because here you have government colliding with itself to fairly well. We have a treaty that says that you can't send people back to a country where you have reason to believe that they'll be persecuted, which is why we can't send these - repatriate these guys back to China.

We have two statutes that say if you have received paramilitary training, or you have been involved in the promotion of terrorism, which there is indication that these guys have, the government says they're a threat to the Chinese, not to us. But under our law, they shouldn't be allowed to be brought into the United States. It's actually a violation of congressional statutes. And you have a federal judge who thinks he's not limited by any law whatsoever. So you have all these things combining in a perfect storm. And what it means to the American people is less security.

[...]

WEST: But I think we can't deny, though, that as we approach the end of the age of Reagan, the end of conservative rule, in addition to the economic catastrophe, you've got...

BENNETT: You're sure it's over?

WEST: I think it's - I think we're reaching an end. I mean, I think it's a good thing, but we're reaching the end.

BENNETT: Well...

WEST: But let's be honest about it. I mean, we know torture is a mark of uncivilized behavior. Any country associated with torture will have their image besmirched around the world. That's part of our challenge, too.

In addition to that, we had Katrina. So you got these three pillars, as it were. So that when we're talking about strong government, tapping people's phones, strong government, promoting torture under some kind of other language, this is something that can never be morally justified.

BENNETT: Was there torture at Guantanamo?

WALL: Yes, I mean...

WEST: From what the evidence...

WALL: There's - what evidence? There's no...

WEST: There's no evidence, no torture has ever taken place whatsoever?

BENNETT: Guantanamo?

WEST: Is there any evidence, any torture taken place in the last ten years by American authority?

MCCARTHY: What are you talking - what do you mean by torture? I mean, are you talking about water boarding? We've water boarded three guys so far as we know.

WALL: I also think the...

MCCARTHY: I don't think it's trivial at all.

WALL: (INAUDIBLE) water board these detainees.

WEST: Torture is taking place.

WALL: ...is astonishing, the liberties we afford these detainees. We had...

WEST: With no...

WALL: We had...

WEST: No habeas corpus.

WALL: We had...

MCCARTHY: Do you want no intelligence?

WALL: Our board actually had some of these military experts, our editorial board had some of these military experts and that - that oversee these military courts and the due process. And it is astonishing to hear the liberties that are afforded to these.

I mean, they get more liberties quite frankly than American citizens who are represented. And in fact, when what has happened with the Supreme Court, I think not only does it put in balance or it weakens our own security as a nation...

BENNETT: Right.

WALL: ...I think it sends a message to terrorists, particularly in a time - and Homeland Security experts will tell you, particularly -- this is a time that these terrorists, al Qaeda, and others, are paying very close attention to what is happening during the election.