Lesley Stahl: You had no qualms? We used to consider some of them war crimes. Jose Rodriguez: We made some al Qaeda terrorists with American blood on their hands uncomfortable for a few days. But we did the right thing for the right reason. And the right reason was to protect the homeland and to protect American lives. So yes, I had no qualms.
Jose Rodriguez: If there was going to be another attack against the U.S., we would have blood on our hands because we would not have been able to extract that information from him. So we started to talk about an alternative set of interrogation procedures. Lesley Stahl: So you're the one who went looking for something to break this guy. Jose Rodriguez: Yes. And let me tell you something, you know, because years later the 9/11 Commission accused, or said that 9/11 was a failure of imagination. Well, there was no lack of imagination on the part of the CIA in June 2002. We were looking for different ways of doing this.
Jose Rodriguez: We went to the border of legality. We went to the border, but that was within legal bounds. Lesley Stahl: Even after you got the Justice Department legal office to give you this okay, you kept going back and back, with each thing you did. Over and over. Jose Rodriguez: We wanted to make sure that the rest of government was with us. Lesley Stahl: How does the water boarding that you engaged in, how did that work? Jose Rodriguez: The detainee was strapped to an inclined board with his feet up so that no water would go-- Lesley Stahl: So his head was back. Jose Rodriguez: So his head was back. And a cloth was placed over the mouth and nose. And water was applied to it. Lesley Stahl: Oh he couldn't breathe through his nose. Jose Rodriguez: So when he was saturated, then the air flow would be stopped. Lesley Stahl: And he'd have the sensation of drowning. Jose Rodriguez: And he would have the sensation. Lesley Stahl: And was he naked? Jose Rodriguez: In many cases, nudity was used extensively. And it worked well. Lesley Stahl: Why is nudity effective? Jose Rodriguez: It is effective because a lot of people feel very vulnerable when they're nude. And also because of the culture. Nudity, it is not something that is common... Lesley Stahl: Was it waterboarding that broke the dam with Abu Zubaydah? Jose Rodriguez: I think he was more taken aback by the insult slap. Lesley Stahl: Oh, what's the insult slap? Jose Rodriguez: It's just slapping somebody with an open hand so that you don't hurt 'em. Lesley Stahl: By "hurt," you mean you don't break his jaw? Jose Rodriguez: We don't break his jaw. And the objective is not to inflict pain. The objective is to let him know there's a new sheriff in town, and he better pay attention.
Lesley Stahl: Would the plots have been stopped without the harsh interrogation techniques? In other words, could it have happened without waterboarding? Jose Rodriguez: I can’t answer that question. Perhaps. But the issue here was timing. We needed information and we needed it right away to protect the homeland. Lesley Stahl: You told us that the whole rationale, justification for the whole interrogation program was to stop an imminent attack. The inspector general says it didn’t stop any imminent attack. Jose Rodriguez: I submit to you that we don’t know. We don’t know if, for example, al Qaeda would have been able to continue on with their anthrax program or nuclear program or the second wave of attacks or the sleeper agents that they had inside the United States that were working with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to take down the Brooklyn Bridge, for example. So, it’s easy, years later, to say, “Well, you know, no ticking time bomb—nothing was stopped.”